Why Apple founder Steve Jobs believed teams should 'argue' and 'fight': 'That's what it's…'

Apple founder Steve Jobs once said that building great teams requires friction – the one that leads to arguments and strong opinions, but resulting in better ideas and stronger people. In a 1995 interview with PBS’s Triumph of the Nerds, Jobs recalled a story from his childhood when a neighbor showed him how a rock tumbler worked. He told interviewer Bob Cringely that a widower neighbor showed him a homemade tumbler consisting of “a motor”, “coffee can” and a “little band between them”. It was filled with "regular old ugly rocks," water and grit, Jobs told the interviewer, recalling that the stones emerged "amazingly beautiful" after a night of clattering. “That’s what it’s like when you get a bunch of incredibly talented people working together,” Jobs said.


““They bump up against each other, they make some noise, they make some mistakes, they have arguments sometimes, they fight — but they polish each other,” he added. Jobs believed that real progress comes when people are forced to challenge each other, not just agree.


At the time of the interview, he was running NeXT and was preparing to return to Apple .


Former Apple employees, as per a Benzinga report, say Jobs often structured team spaces to encourage such interaction. Engineers and designers were placed close together so they had to confront issues head-on. Similar methods were used later in iPhone development and at Pixar, where open criticism in story sessions was part of the creative process.


Steve Jobs ’ work habit shared by Elon Musk and Jeff Bezos

Pixar’s Chief Creative Officer Pete Docter recently said that Steve Jobs would reportedly call colleagues at hours. As per a recent CNBC report, Docter told Fast Company's Most Innovative Companies Gala that Jobs would phone colleagues “at any time, day or night, three in the morning … you're on vacation, doesn't matter”. He further stated that Jobs’ after-hours calls were non-negotiable and that the intensity often ignored personal boundaries. Docter’s comments come amid ongoing discussions about tech’s always-on work culture. He positioned his own leadership style as a contrast to that of Jobs — and to the hustle culture promoted by figures like Elon Musk and Jeff Bezos.